Thoughts on Tokens

I originally thought I'd make this a poll, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized that I couldn't write one that would give me sufficiently useful feedback. So, let's do this instead:

Please tell me what you think about tokens.

Which ones you like, which ones you don't, whether you like them as a group, what you'd like to see changed, whatever. Incidentally, this also ties into Archmage selection, since that influences which tokens you end up with (both obviously, and non-obviously). Tokens are difficult to balance because of their high power level, and I'm guessing I didn't get it right on the first pass. I'm hoping to get some direct feedback on them, so I can polish them up a bit more. Thanks!

The only tokens I really get mileage out of are White Tokens for Item creation and the Pink Tokens for wishes. Black Tokens are nice for throwing at enemies, but I usually invert it for a new White. I haven't played too much with Red or Blue yet. Sometimes I'll just use the Blue for the Mana regen.

Yeah, white and pink seem much more powerful than the others -- they can give you a lasting bonus, while the others are basically just get-out-of-jail-free cards. There are already lots of items that can serve as get-out-of-jail-free cards (admittedly, not such powerful ones, but still.) I haven't had too much chance to play around yet, though.

On the other hand... extending the token-buffs with potions of permanence could probably be extremely powerful, too, although perhaps a bit less so with potions of permanence now toned down a bit.

Interesting. Ok...for the tokens that you guys think aren't as strong, would increasing the duration of the use effects (number of casts or number of turns, respectively) be sufficient to make them comparable to Light and Cosmic, or are the effects themselves sufficiently weaker that they warrant a redesign? How often do you end up using the other things that they can do (throw, mix, etc)?

The red token is the most awesome item in this game. Period.

I'm not impressed with the black token at all. Invisibility is far too common already with scrolls and spells and such for me to really care about devoting my rare starting item slot to it. Maybe there are cool item mixes with it. I havent really played around with that yet.

I think the regerating tokens are actually kind of "meh". Those are somewhat useful abilities outside of combat and horrible in combat. Their usefulness is often outweighed by a single potion, however.

I haven't played around with the Wish token too much and I wonder if it is only limtied to equipment. I've tried Level Sphere, Life, and Ally among other thingswith no success. I'm hugely against wishes in roguelikes but this one seems a little more balanced. Maybe I just don't know the names of all the really awesome wishable gear yet.

winter_mute wrote:

I think the regerating tokens are actually kind of "meh". Those are somewhat useful abilities outside of combat and horrible in combat. Their usefulness is often outweighed by a single potion, however.

Pretty much. I've never wanted to use a token on myself rather than a potion. Maybe have their effect scale depending on your max HP/MP so that they're better than a potion by total HP/MP gained and can potentially save you a turn later if you use one before you start zapping things or getting whacked (as opposed to having to drink a potion in the middle of the zapping/whacking).

I take it back. black domination token is pretty damn useful. Neither effect is as swingy and satisfying as overcharged but taken together that artifact has some nice utility.

the regen tokens still suck though.